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Ilya, actually I am a trader, or better to say a bot operator. Eduardo and Miro know me for years, we never met but we know each other through bfexplorer. Back in 2007 I discovered betfair as a bettor, and like many others at start it was maybe a good luck but I won a good amount of money, with a novice luck it all turned wrong way couple months later.

At that time I made a good decision and did not deposit money but started to analyze what went wrong, and then I discovered there are some apps for trading and betfair offers web service to access their data.

I started to develop a program which would make me to be a trader. Betfair offered free api, with limited speed and full transactional api for which I had to pay 200 GBP per month. To cover those 200 GBP per month I released bfexplorer 6 months later after my first running app at the end of 2007.

With a new api, betfair released last year, I do not have to pay those 200 GBP for now, we will see in near future if betfair will change that. On the other hand there is a decline on betfair in every aspect.
I think you already noticed that my web site is quite different, it is more my blog, than a web site trying to sell product, therefore I have no problems, to make fun of my app, or just to discus other products, and give them a credit, if they earned it.

As I said I listen to what my users say sometimes, mainly when there are some good ideas to implement.

Miro, “Trailing Stop Loss” bot had been operating correctly in my video. Maybe the name of the bot or just its parameter name: Loss is a little bit misleading. This bot actually never closes your bet position in loss, but only when your bet position can be closed in a profit, and when the biggest reached profit is reverted to lose its profit by set amount of ticks (the Loss parameter).

On my video you could see that when I executed this bot it set the target odds two ticks above the open odds, what were 3.05. Now when odds moved down the target odds was set x ticks lower depending on for how many ticks odds went down.

The Loss parameter was set to 2 ticks; those 2 ticks make a buffer zone for closing bet position. It is pity that I switched from ladders to grid view at the moment when “Trailing Stop Loss” had been triggered.

I wanted to show that bfexplorer in that moment operated with matched orders/bets and with automated orders/bots, so I showed Market Bets and Market Bots views side by side, and similar like you cancel unmatched orders/bets, you can stop automated orders/bots.

In my video I created special type of bot which used to close bet position by trailing stop loss in profit, and close selection bet position at odds. I hope you understand how this bot was constructed, and how the ladder entry was used to set odds at which the bot should close bet position in loss, it was set to 3.35.

Miro, I did not ask you to compare ladders but automation functionality of Bfexplorer and Market Feeder. It is clear that automation is built on base logic/algorithmic blocks which operate on different entry parameters/rules.

I asked you if Market Feeder offers similar type of betting operation like “Be the first in queue” and if not, if such functionality can be implemented by triggers, what I think cannot be done by Market Feeder.

If we compare what type of strategies can be built by bfexplorer bots, and what type of strategies can be built by Market Feeder trigger rules, then Market Feeder base blocks are:

Placing bets, cancelling bets, placing offset bets (hedge bets) on selection, hedging market, and set rules triggers those actions.

With bfexplorer the base blocks are bots with specific functionality, and triggering is made by programming bot trigger, or by using those 8 construct bots…

Never mind, we can end this discussion now.

Eduardo, open bfexplorer home page, at the end of the page you can find Bfexplorer Statistics with real number of current users.

On the forum there are at the moment 3 active users, all of them free Professional users, two of them Basic subscribers, and one non subscriber who donated and were willing to post on bfexplorer forum so I gave him free Professional access as well.

The most of bfexplorer users do not even bother to post anything on forum, so I believe they found bfexplorer features useful and have no interest on any changes.

There are 3 features levels for bfexplorer. You can use free version for years the only requirement is to post on bfexplorer forum, no one uses this option.

Basic subscriber is bettor on betfair. Professional subscriber is trader, or bot operator running his/her automated betting or trading solutions. I have got 3 or 4 active professional subscribers for whom I built bespoke solutions, so applications according to their requirements.

Your problem is that you want some features which are implemented by bots, what is the feature offered only for Professional subscribers.

I work from 5 to 10 hours daily on bfexplorer or on support, so I am not able to offer anything more for free. Well, of course I use my app for my own bot strategies, so most of that time is time I spend on my own betfair research activities.

Heh... about those videos on Youtube with the manual trading on the ladder… It's a usual scam to attract totally inexperienced trader to subscriber but thanks God almost all trading software has the trial period so people can try and see that they can't make profit that way. : - )

BFexplorer has the best ladder interface I've even met and there are no any other platforms that offer such customization it also offers "Betview" capabilities but why I don't see there are thousand subscribers around? : - )

P.S. the more people trade on Betfair the more money Betfair makes... Stefan, and you really think that the creators of Betfair are such shortsighted people? If the ladder was the crucial feature for the starting traders then we already saw this features on the official Betfair site long time ago. Believe me the creators of Betfair aren't such careless people to put their destiny in hands on the apps developers. : - )

Heh... Stefan, when I first time saw BFexplorer I got impression that the person who made it is awesome coder/programmer with willingness to put a lot of effort into his software but differently he isn’t trader. : -)

I was impressed how powerful are some less important features but then I saw that some essential functional at very poor state.    

Stefan, in your previous post you said your opinion about what any starting trader needs for trading and you mentioned the ladder but now think the people who created Betfair are definitely smart people and they have very experienced traders on their side and they know how to make money but why they don't provide the ladder interface on their official web site? They could do that easily with the resource they have and attract much more "starting" traders to trade on their exchange... but why there's no any "ladder" interface at all? Doesn't it look a bit strage to you? : - ) 

14:15 - 15:30

https://youtu.be/BeUKIq90fUQ?t=14m15s

- trailing stop 2 tick -  Indicator goes from 3,15 to 3,05 but Stop Loss not working when LTP is 3,25

Good night friends:

This is a very interesting and necessary debate.

I did not want to intervene, so far, because I know what it asks Ilya not going to get, because it's something I've been asking for many years, to do manual trading with some features that can be used by BFE basic users, ie, without bots.

Stefan, you know, that traders flee from your app, because they do not understand, at the interface they do not see the usual features.

I think the debate is leading to a battle of egos.

You believe that your solutions are valid for all, but others believe that your bots are wonderful for some time, but other times prefer to see what they are doing or what we have done, using simple features that we can check or uncheck.

I think if you did Ilya case, many more traders prove your software. You're driving down the British road with your vehicle with left hand drive, ie, you are going against the majority.

"Your software is probably the best, but do not understand that others want, in England, the steering wheel to the right"

And what does it mean?

Stefan, every piece of software has own conception.

You can not compare using Ladders in GeeksToy vs. Bfexplorer. Cannot compare triggers in Market Feeder Pro vs. Bfexplorer bot ... etc.

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Maybe: would be better write what is better in Bfe instead find mistakes on users, users experiences with others sw etc.

I decided that I would use the BFE "only" for full automated solutions.

I cannot use something like Bfexplorer Console, Ladder (in my opinion confused for in-play markets), ... etc.

I will only use the available scripts or bots. I am not programmer, some times I made mistake, but I do not want to torment and ridicule others to be what I am like a fool.

Here is maybe false hope of something better, but often good will ended frustrated on the half way.

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Too much energy for me...

Starting from bfexplorer  1.7.5743, all “bot triggers” will be released as compiled assemblies as well.

After downloading .zip file from bfexplorer web site, do not forget to Unblock it.

Stefan, without any doubts you do excellent support and no one can't find such excellent support at any other products.

I really appreciate your efforts and I really appreciate that you listen my complains. : - )

Keep up the good job!

I knew you would not be offended. I always listen what users say and take what I think could be a good addition to bfexplorer features, such features are added in hours and not in weeks like other betfair software vendors do.

I added CancelAllBets, as an experiment some users could use, and that was your suggestion. From my point of view I would implement the heartbeat feature as I mentioned and if such feature will be required by some users.

Thanks Miro for your video, and what about Market Feeder settings that would execute a bet placing procedure like bfexplorer bot: “Be the first in queue” does?

Bfexplorer for now offers 8 bots to allow constructing bot strategies:

“Execute on Selections"
"Execute Bots
"Execute On Associated Market"
"Execute Till Target Profit"
"If Then Else"
"Chain Execution"
"Repeat Until"
"Execute Trigger Bot”

In Ilya strategy the missing part was a bot which would cancel bets on other selections and executes further action bot, in this case bot closing a bet position at odds.

I would need more examples of different strategies to develop a general purpose bots.
From this example I can think about extending "If Then Else" bot features.

Stefan, no offense taken! : - )

I just give you my feedbacks/suggestions form trader point of view that's all.  I understand that I might be wrong in every aspect.

It's your software and only decide what's good for it. : - )

Ilya forgive me I was wrong giving you credibility to be an expert in any aspect of this meaning :-) We are both Slavs (I am Slovak, and you are Russian) so I hope you will not take my words too seriously to be offended.

The base feature any starting trader needs is a trading ladder where he can place his/her bets, update them or cancel. The ladder offers Profit column where if a bet is matched it shows your current bet position you can close by hedging when clicking on a profit value. Those are essential features for any trading software to place a bet and take a profit or loss.

The ladder interface is set to be default view when you open bfexplorer. Of course you can create many different workspaces with different layouts and switch off ladders totally if you do not need them.

When betfair trader manages these base features for trading he can go further, and setup one click bet orders which automatically trades out at a target profit or loss, those are betfair bots.

On youtube you can watch many videos with people clicking on ladders. If you have got a strategy you can do what many do manually by using betfair bots, and then you actually do not need a ladder, well maybe only for reading a situation on a market if your trading strategy is executed manually.
Yesterday you posted a comment with user interface (UI) mockup: http://i.imgur.com/AqtWvrJ.png

Showing how UI presenting bets should look like. This is quite funny because bfexplorer is able to present any grid data in tree like structure, and I showed it in my article Cancel Bets on All Markets.
Presenting data in grids is a common UI practice, using grouping, filtering, sorting or searching as well. Actually such features are so commonly used, also by operating system like Windows (just have a look at File Explorer and its grouping features) that I think it is not necessary to explain users how to group, filter or search.

Well, of course all that depends on a software developer if he uses such features in his programs or not. In my video you can see that I used and use such features in my programs.

I changed settings which I showed before.

- Bet placed before In-Play -> Keep in-play
- Green Up -> changed Back bet 1.25 because green up waiting for 1.25 Odds, but Back bet place bet immediatelly

It is many conditions only... and meanwhile place bet and cancel bet

Lay the Field video - in MarketFeeder Pro

https://youtu.be/W4maUAPwpAQ

(only sample - with open markets, edit triggers, turn triggers on)

Stefan, on your place I wouldn't mixed up the "essential" functional and automation/bot functional I would split them.

Because right now BFexplorer looks too complex for "average" trader and not too powerful for the "advanced" trader.