Comments

Lay the Field video - in MarketFeeder Pro

https://youtu.be/W4maUAPwpAQ

(only sample - with open markets, edit triggers, turn triggers on)

Stefan, on your place I wouldn't mixed up the "essential" functional and automation/bot functional I would split them.

Because right now BFexplorer looks too complex for "average" trader and not too powerful for the "advanced" trader.  

Stefan, the trick is to know what features the overwhelming majority of traders use and what features are useless.

Heh... what would be if we removed "iBeer" or "X-ray" apps from iPhone? : - ) I think anyone can leave without them just fine : - ) but what if we removed the ability to call or send SMS? That would be tragic... : -)

If you aren't experienced trader and you look at all those features that some platforms offer you might think that all of them are important and essential but the truth is that the only 10% of those features are really used by traders and those 10% features should polished to perfection and when those 10% of features are polished to perfection you can move further and add other functional which is less important.

Stefan, I haven't even started to give you suggestion about automation : -) I started from the "essential" features which should present by default : - ) and probably 80% of all traders would be happy to hanve only those "essential" features and they will be frustrated if they don't them in good state.

You mentioned Cymatic and Geek Toy, but these apps offers 2 – 3 features for automated bet placing like placing stop loss bet or tick offset, therefore in their user interface you can find panels to setup such features.

If I did the same for bfexplorer, there would not be enough screen estate to accommodate setup panels for all those features, therefore I added My Bots view where you can add your required setting for different functions.

For example, there are many smartphones on the market Apple, Samsung, Nokia and many others. They are all different and they all have different features but there's some essential functional which all smartphones offer you - make phone calls : - )

Now image what if there was a smartphone which requires you to spend few hours to figure out how to make calls and every time when you need to make a call it requires more than 10 minutes to setup your phone to make a call? Or what if it requires more than 10 minutes to setup your phone to send SMS...

Heh, I really doubt that such smartphone would be popular : - )  But if you look you see that you can make calls and send SMS by that phone the same as with other smartphones but the amount of efforts it requires to makes calls and send SMS makes this smartphone unattractive.

Yes, in BFexplorer you can have "the essential" functional but it takes too much time to setup simple things and also overall it very hard for "average" trader to figure out how to do that, especially, when "average" trader got used to do that in few clicks and without any efforts.

Ilya, what makes you think that bfexplorer does not offer such essential trading functionality you talk about?

Click on Add a new bot, setup your OCO settings (using Place Bet and Close Selection Bet Position), click on Use Ladder, and clicking on ladder you will place your OCO order with set profit and/or loss target. In Market Bots you can cancel/stop such order, or you can do so by clicking on Stop/Cancel All.

Heh... Stefan, I understand that probably I've annoyed you to death already with my advises/suggestions : -) but I see that you work really hard to improve your software and you do everything and even more to help the costumers so I try to share my experience in order to help you because as I said I have more than 10 years trading experience and I trade many different markets not only Betfair so I know how traders "think" and what they "need".

There are huge amount of traders who need only "essential" functional to trade and they don't want even bother with programing/bots/automation trading because many trading strategies can be done by that "essential" functional. Heh... and probably those traders are overwhelming majority overwhelming. : - )  I've already explained in my previous posts what do I mean when I say "essential" functional.

Those traders aren't coders or programmers and it very might be that their PC skill are even below average level so the easier to configure that “essential” stuff the better for them.

Also many traders comes to Betfair from the equity, forex or futures markets which have more than 25 year history of electronic trade and those traders already got used to some trading functional because it proved by time to be very efficient.

Betfair isn't much different for other market and you don’t need to "reinvent the wheel" here so the same functional as for other market.

Right now Geek Toy offer that "essential" functional and even some little automation with OCO(Order Cancel Order Feature) and probably it’s enough for overwhelming majority of traders and for the most of trades it doesn’t requires to figure out how it works because that functional has been taken from equity trading platform and every trader is familiar with it.

Geek Toy is a paid software but there's also Cymatic Trader which is free(not for too long I think : -)) and has almost the same "essential" functional but only without fully configurable "Stop Loss" order but Given(the author) of the Cymatic Traded said that he’ll add the fully customizable "Stop Loss" in few weeks so Cymatic Trader will be have "the essential" functional and some automation  capability through Excel integration but it needs to be said that for average trader it’s too complex.

Market Feeder lacks the “essential” functional but has extremely "user friendly" automation capability so you can make that "essential" functional and even much more.

Also traders don’t like to share their strategy and only very naive and unskilled traders think that they can find bots or already ready solution which make profit for them because if everybody win money then who lose them? : -)  so any trading platform shouldn’t give any ready solutions/strategy to traders but it should give them tools to create different strategy.

I'm sure the clear winner will be such trading software that can offer the same "essential" functional as Geek Toy and Cymatic Traders offer and the same automation capabilities that Marker Feeder offer.  

Here is screenshot of settings triggers.

1st trigger Lay all the field at 1,10 (constant) with default Stake (Amount). No other conditions.

2nd trigger Cancel all Lay bets on this market when on any other Selection matched Lay bet

3rd trigger green up (hedge) position. On Selection where Lay bet matched...

I will send videocast later

Ilya, I will wait till Miro show us Market Feeder running your simple solution, or your video of Cymatic.

I want to continue constructive discussion, if someone claims that something can be done better, then I want to see a video showing the fact, otherwise anything is just unverified claim.

Stefan, I apologize that I called Bet Angel the best software : -) I tested it long time ago and it seemed to me very similar with Market Feeder so I thought my strategy could be easily done.

Yesterday I looked at Bet Angle again and saw that it didn't has anything similar with Market Feeder.  

Bet Angel looks like a scam : - ) it doesn't has any functional at all even the simplest functions as "Take Profit/Tick Off" don't work because they are coded wrong. Also you can say that it doesn't have any automation trade capability.

Even Cymatic Traded which is free about 100 times better than Bet Angel. : - )

Also I think my strategy can be easily done in Cymatic Trader at least in "semi-automation" mode because I've tested and I know that the limit orders with attached "Take Profit" work just fine in Cymatic Trader and the only what I need is cancel all unmatched lay orders through excel integration.

I’m easily able to do my strategy in Market Feeder but I can't show you the video because I don't have any screen capture program, also, I haven't had any need before to make any video so I don't have any experience in it... Heh I even don't have youtube account : - ) so if I have enough free time to spent on video making process then I'll do it.

So far Market Feeder looks a head above all other platforms.

Ilya, I would like to ask you to do the same what I asked Miro. Please, make a short video showing your semi-automated strategy running by Bet Angel.

Did you actually read what suggested Miro to you in the first comments to this article?

You could/can use Place bet and close selection bet position, to setup your strategy for one horse, so lay at 1.1 and place back bet immediately after a lay bet is matched. To execute this on all horses/ on all field you need to use Execute on Selections bot, so then you can execute your strategy on a horse racing win market just by one mouse click on the Start bot button.

Of course, your bot trigger is ready, tell me how could I make a video without this bot trigger? In my video I show how you will setup and use this bot trigger.

I had to extend features for Execute Trigger Bot, bet cancelling was not yet implemented for bot triggers, so I had to add it to bfexplorer back end infrastructure. Unfortunately, I did not yet release bfexplorer with this new features, I will do so tomorrow, as I have got other updates in my list.

I will wait for your videos (your and Miro’s ones) and will release bfexplorer after watching them, maybe your videos will be inspirations to make further changes to bfexplorer infrastructure.

Miro, I asked you three times to make a video and you did not do it. You claim something what I cannot understand or do myself to test, so I want to see it on my own eyes.

You told many things about bfexplorer when you were not able to understand something or do something. I patiently explained it and when it was necessary I made a video to help you understand. For now there is 63 videos showing all bfexplorer features.

The strategy is quite simple, and you can watch my 3 minutes video showing how to execute this strategy with bfexplorer.

You told us that Market Feeder is easy to use, like a Lego cubes, so I believe you show us even shorter video presenting this Ilya horse racing strategy as I did in my video.

Place lay bets on all horse, when a lay bet is matched (I simulated this action by updating a lay bet to be matched at current offered lay price/odds), place a back offset bet. That is all what I ask you to show us I your video with Market Feeder.

Stefan, can you upload the bot that you showed on the video preview or it isn't ready yet?

Stefan, in Bet Angel I do my strategy this way:

There's an option to place any order you want on all selections at once so I place Lay order with "Take Profit" attached on all selections.

When I see that any order is matches I run the bot that cancel all unmatched Lay orders and keep the unmatched Back orders.

Heh... you can call it "semi-automation" but it's acceptable to me because it took me about few minutes to configure it. Maybe it's possible to make full automation but I haven't tried it.

Market Feeder has more powerful automation capability then Bet Angel so I think it will possible to do at least the same what I do in Bet Angel.

In Cymatic Trader something like that can be done only through Excel integration and I'm sure it will much more complex and time consuming so I haven't tried it yet.

In BFexplorer

In BFexplorer I can’t figure out how to do my strategy even in "semi-automation" mode. : - ) 

Stefan,

there are many variation how to Lay the Field and etc. ...

This trigger puts bet only if the Best Lay Price on Selection is equal or less than 1,10 and Greenup if Back price on this Selection =>1,35.

By changing 2 parameters trigger place Lay bets immediately, and after first matched Lay bet -> Cancel all others... No need, custom script.

http://marketfeeder.co.uk/learn/triggers/laying-greening-up/

Miro, I want to see what you say about Lego cubes. I have no intention to install that product or read manual.  I really have no spare time for such things.

You already read the manual and have Market Feeder installed. Just make that strategy and show us video, I believe it will be interested for those who never used this app, and for me to see what I can do better with further bfexplorer feature development.

Stefan, for understanding of the Market Feeder Pro is enough to read the manual:

http://marketfeeder.co.uk/download/MF8_manual_eng.pdf

Maybe funny, but there are huge quantity ready-made options, variables, addressing bets, logs... etc.
Triggers are .xml files. You can duplicate, modify hundred values in minute etc.

Some operations are comfortable in Bfe, especially with prebuilt bots.

The difference is that you can all put together like Lego cubes. Without the support programmer.

Miro, what I said about wanting to see some examples of features, user interface and so on, was meant to you as well. In many cases we discussed here a lot of stuff, and in many cases I did not know what you had been talking about.

I do not know if you watched the issue with Execute Trigger Bot problems Eduardo had. I said about a common sense many times. Well, in this case bot trigger compilation issue is a problem with missing assemblies, bfexplorer cannot find when compiling bot trigger file, used F# compiler requires installed Visual Studio, and it is clear that it makes sense. Bfexplorer users, who will want to use this option, will have to install Visual Studio, to develop bot triggers, debug them or just use them. It is the same like users of other betfair automation software are required to install Microsoft Excel.

The second problem can be really assigned to a common sense. Well, I am familiar that Windows (operating system) blocks files downloaded from the Internet. I download a lot project files from the Internet, and of course I unblock such files. I simply assumed that this common sense is used by all computer users. So I tested what Eduardo downloaded and unzipped to his folders, the problem was as well that Eduardo uses Spanish version of Windows, so for me who is used to read a screen when operating with programs, was difficult to understand, otherwise I would solve this issue a lot of sooner, and not after almost a week of testing my code and looking for a problem in places where I could not find any.

You used/use Market Feeder, so just for comparison or just to see what I can improve, it would be a god idea if you show me a video with horse racing strategy Ilya want to implement using bfexplorer platform. I actually made such video already, will download bot trigger assembly soon.

Ilya, read as I wrote. You are "a new fresh blood" maybe you are want to the same things as I want, but I cannot explain it.

Some things "are", but differently works... etc.
A slightly different user interface and experience is completely different

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For example Bfexplorer Console:
Maybe nice tool, but for non-programmer user is stressful. How can I do it this and this... I already do not ask because they already bigger fool can not even be here...

Ilya, I need to see a best feature you talk about, because I think a lot of features is already in bfexplorer, and I am not able to understand why you cannot find them. Therefore I need a comparison with a tool you are familiar with, for instance Cymatic, I hound your comments on their forum, so it should not be a problem for you to show us how your horse racing strategy is automated with Cymatic or Bet Angel, or by a tool of your choice, as you tested a lot of betfair apps.