User Comments

The bot scripts I made for you extend bfexplorer bot features; this is not a case for common support I offer for my Professional subscribers.

We agreed that I will build a bot for you (from one bot there were 3 bot scripts at the end). I really wanted to help you, but there are some limits.

I hoped that as we agreed I build a bot and you will be doing any necessary changes to the bot by yourself.

Actually any bot developer can confirm that bot code is nothing complicated, because it is actually bot script that orchestrates built-in bfexplorer action bots, for instance Place bet and close bet position bot (the trading bot your bot scripts use) is 12 times more complicated, if we just measure the length of the bot source code.

I have done my job, and delivered your bot scripts, and I made a lot of changes to bfexplorer as well, for instance Use Ladder to start bot execution by clicking on a ladder, such feature was implemented in the old bfexplorer, but to the new bfexplorer I added this feature only after introducing Bot Trigger scripts.

So as agreed you received your bots, and the hell started, when you started to use your bots and wanted to make some changes. I was forced to reply for really simple questions, you have got your bots, you have got your documentation to any bot feature, as you received source code of your bots, so such questions are not in place, mainly as we agreed that you will make changes yourself, so I hoped you will learn something about bot programming.

At the end I appealed on your common sense, and not only in what you were asking but how you behave as well. Miro, we agreed on something and now you say that I must do it, as that is a customer support I am obliged to give you. I am not your slave.

Of course, I am happy to give you customer support you paid for, but this customer support does not include development of custom built bots or trading solutions in the extend you require.

I can build simple bot, if necessary, just to show my customer how to start with bot development, what I actually did for you, but I am not able to spend 3-4 hours daily just to change something in your bots, and in following day to learn that you want to do add some new feature, and what I made a day before is useless.

I asked you to show me how behave other betfair vendors to your questions for building similar bots as I did for you.

I could simply reply, as I believe they will reply to you: Unfortunately, such feature is not yet supported by our product; we will consider adding it in a near future. Thank you for asking.

And that is the end of this story.

Miro, I really think it is you who do not understand what you are talking about.

Any feature or bot you asked here on forum actually did not exist in base bfexplorer features or in the code base of bfexplorer backend. So any of your questions starting with: is it possible, how can I do that or this one, was not from my side about explaining bfexplorer feature, but actually about implementing a new feature to bfexplorer or creating a custom built bot for you.

I think you really cannot say that you did not know about it, because in one of my emails to you I said that this is my last custom bot script I built for you and it will be only up to you, how you manage to update it, if necessary, to suit your needs or requirements later.

Anyone interested, can click on your forum name to list all your forum posts and read your ideas or requirements.

I did not implement all you asked for, but as it is with any request from my customers, I did implement what I thought was interested or useable for others as well. When saying usable then I do not mean exact bot feature, but implementation code behind, the interfaces which allows extending bfexplorer features. I believe you are not able to understand this fact, and all what you can see and think that was done, is bfexplorer application user interface or bot scripts you downloaded.

Man, what you can actually see is just 20% of my work I have done when working on your custom bot scripts, because anything you could see this way, is supported by a lot more code in bfexplorer backend.

Let’s take just last bot script for saving bot status to csv file, to make it work I had to change any bfexplorer bot already implemented in My Bots, to expose necessary data. Anytime I updated your bot scripts I said you need to install the latest version of bfexplorer and re-download your bot script/s. 

I patiently explained new features and how to use them, and I repeated it in some cases many times.

I appealed on your common sense because I really did not know how to further explain the same features again and again, when I tried to say it from different point of view, and you still did not understand what I had been talking about.

You used my kindness and willingness to help you implement your bot scripts, and you knew what I said, that it will be only up to you, to make changes to them later.

Now, when you say that SaveBotData bot script does not save bot data of Repeat Until bot, and I explained why is it so, again appealing on your common sense, because all it was already said before, you complain about my customer support and about not knowing my customer’s needs.

Now you say that you are not a programmer, but you agreed that I program for you all those bot scripts. So you used my kindness, because if I knew that, I had never built all those bot scripts for you, just because I have almost no spare time, so I am not able to manage your bot scripts indefinitely.

Well, bfexplorer can do a lot just by setting some parameters or clicking on some buttons. What you asked for was nothing standard in bfexplorer features, and I believe you know/knew it. What you asked for was extending bfexplorer features by bot script programming.

I really like to see support from bet angel for instance, when you ask them to add your bot to their product, so you can execute your bot by clicking on ladder. You have got a lot of betfair products you can choose from, so please show me at least one better customer support, on the same set of features in their app I implemented for you.

This is a really good idea but a problem is that it is quite difficult to implement, a tool for general usage for any kind of sport betting event you would like to search.

In my own bot solutions I solve this problem by developing custom bots or bot triggers which check my entry conditions and open required associated markets, so then I am able to filter or search for markets by executing such bots with Bot Executor, or by executing custom scripts from Bfexplorer Console.

BDP betfair team scheduled to release (estimated release date is September 2015) in beta version a new feature: Exchange Market Streaming. In description they say:

Stream market information (primarily prices) based on user-filters.

This feature was not yet released, as soon as they do so I will check what can be done.

On Bfexplorer Community you can read forum or blog posts. I use my own blog to post about new features, explaining how to use bfexplorer, or just to write about my own ideas or opinions. In this blog post I just informed about the new feature bot developers could use to visualize market selection data on ladders, I did not mention that I released the bot. I made some videos and wrote blog articles showing other bfexplorer features, but I did not release all those bot solutions publicly neither.

I can release some of those bots in Bot Community edition in near future, if there is some interest. I really do not want to overfill My Bots with the bots nobody will use.

Miro, I believe that using common sense is in place here, as I already said, you have got bot trigger source code, so you have got “documentation” to this SaveBotData bot.

You have got Visual Studio installed. If I publicly released this bot, I did so mainly for those who want to learn betfair bot programming, so including Bfexplorer BOT SDK and all my publicly available bots, they have got a lot of bot code to learn from and to build on this code, its own betfair bots.

Therefore please open Visual Studio, open Bfexplorer BOT SDK solution, and open this bot source code, then you can learn how this bot saves bot’s bet position only for those bots inherited from SelectionBot.

My common sense says to me that you should manage to do so, right? You installed Visual Studio, so you must know how to use it, otherwise, my common sense says, you did not install something you have no idea how to use it, right?

The bot code is very simple, and you can see what method is actually used to detect when SaveBotData bot needs to save a bet position of the bot that has just ended its execution:

(market.RunningBots :> INotifyCollectionChanged).CollectionChanged.AddHandler SaveBotDataHandler

Ok, you will say you have got no idea about bot programming, but even you are not a software developer, I believe you are able to read some English words, right?

market - running bots - collection changed - save bot data

You said you use Repeat Until bot. Unfortunately, for this type of bot your SaveBotData bot will not detect that your action bot ended its execution, so will not save its bet position to CSV file.

It seems this article is not more about bots, but more about quarrelling who is right or wrong, who has and use a common sense or not.

Last days I visited some other forum of my competitors offering betfair automation. Frankly to say, sometimes I had no idea about what people were asking for, and I was surprised that even simple operations like closing bet position or placing bets has to be done by combinations of different rules, or settings and a lot of things could not be done at all. I was surprised by people’s understanding of those rules and features; actually no one has been complaining that something cannot be done, or the way how it is done or implemented. All users have base understanding, some way they grasped a common sense in using app features,  and I must say that those features are a lot of complicated comparing to bfexplorer ones, that is at least my opinion.

Back to the common sense in using bfexplorer features. If you start a bot, in the Output view you can read the message: The bot XY has been started. When a bot ends its execution, in the Output view you can read the message: The bot XY ended.

The above mentioned fact is important, mainly in the context how the SaveBotData bot works. The bot detects when a bot is removed from the market bot collection, and at the moment saves its bet position.

The bot Repeat Until, or Chain Execution bot, execute its action bot/s internally without exposing them to bfexplorer. Bfexplorer, the Market Bots view knows only about the Repeat Until, or Chain Execution bot, but nothing about internally executed bots, and you could learn this common knowledge just by observing what bot writes to the Output view, or what bots are presented in the Market Bots view.

Miro, so it is again just about a common sense in using bfexplorer features, some way you still did not grasp it when using bfexplorer, and in this case it is really quite simple, how the bot SaveBotData can save bet position of market running bots, if those action bots are not presented in Market Bots view?

Please, read this:

market - running bots - collection changed - save bot data

Eduardo, you use my replies to issues you do not care to investigate if they were right or wrong. If you did read articles and watch videos I replied to, you would learn that I was/am right, and all what user/Miro needed was to use a common sense to solve his issues, the issues which were not actually problems with bfexplorer features, but his wrong approach of using bfexplorer.

Miro did not download the latest version of bfexplorer and/or custom script I built for him, I had to change bfexplorer interface to make available some new features, his custom built script could use, and without latest version of both the script and bfexplorer his bot scripts simply did not work as required.

If you would read article comments you would had found Miro’s reply where he finally understood that he was wrong, but of course he did not apologize for what he said, but he said:

“Is it possible create public folder with free scripts? You change some code in Bfe, old scripts dont work, and look for them in the forum is not easy...”

Every time I updated his scripts I said to him, download scripts and install latest version of bfexplorer, I communicated with him through emails as well. He is Czech and was easier for him to communicate in his mother’s language, so we discussed bot script development not only in this forum.

Well, yes as an excuse he created a list of custom bot scripts I built for him, I understood it and did not reply to this issue anymore.

On Site Map you can find Donate web page, donate at least 10 GBP and I will give you Professional subscription plan for 1 month at time you will want to use it.

I do not think bfexplorer is complicated, you must know what you want to do, just have a look at on this video, where I show how I run my testing bot: Show Selections Trading Indicators. There is just one parameter IntervalUpdating, I set for 30 seconds, and that is all.

The main problem is really what I said before. You must know how you want to use bfexplorer feature/s for your trading, and frankly to say I do not think you have an idea how you would use them.

Just go to your last article Button: "Hedge the entire market". I still have no idea what you wanted to say with this article, and I asked you three times just to confirm one think: Is bfexplorer showing correct profit balance or not? This question implies answer that geektoy app does not show correct profit balance, as you compared bfexplorer to this one.

Eduardo, yesterday you sent me email asking me why I deleted images from your article, I replied to you that I did not delete anything, and I asked what you meant by your article, as I can read only the article title.

Today you posted article again with your images as well. You know bfexplorer and you know geektoy app too, because you used it as etalon and compared it bfexplorer.

I explained how bfexplorer calculates market profit balance and that to the calculation are included all open bet positions. In one of your images there are really big discrepancies, so I ask again:

Did you make your own calculation to actually verify which profit balance is correct? Because you blame that bfexplorer shows wrong numbers, and differences are quite huge, bfexplorer shows -5.18 loss and geektoy shows only -0.93 loss.

From what I can say reading your low resolution images is that geektoy is totally wrong, you opened bet position on 0 – 0, 0 – 1, 1 - 0 , 1 – 1, 1 – 2, and 2 – 0. On some bets your close your bet position and some bet/s were left only with back bet. The current score, as we can see it on the middle image is 2 – 0, there is lowest back/lay odds on this selection 9.4.

Now explain me for god sake, how is it possible that geektoy shows your current bet position on this market as 0.93 loss only, when all your other bets already lost (0 – 0, 0 – 1, 1 - 0 , 1 – 1, 1 – 2) so your bet position on 2 – 0 which was in profit for 2.40 could not cover all your losses on other selections.

I really think that bfexplorer number is correct, all what I ask you to explain what you actually meant by your artcle.

If English is problem for you then why you do not use Spanish, but please write it in correct Spanish without misspelling, so using google/bing translator will give me meaningful translation.

I actually do not care in what language you post here on bfexplorer forum. All I need is to get some feedback on bfexplorer features, and if there are some problems, I can solve them very quickly.

The forum is knowledge base as well, for other bfexplorer users, so next time when some geektoy expert will use bfexplorer and will complain about the same problem, I will know if it is really some issue in bfexplorer or geektoy implementation is totally wrong.

Eduardo, you wrote this article and stated your problem saying that bfexplorer shows wrong profit balance number.

So I repeat my question again: Did you actually make your math to check which results are correct, if bfexplorer shows correct number or the other app?

I think the other app shows wrong numbers. Do you understand my question?

Edurado, did you actually make your math on examples you showed us in the article? I think the other app actually shows wrong market profit balance. It is hardly to see on your pictures what bets you placed and what is actually correct profit balance number.

The profit balance number is meant to be a current profit you can close your bet position on entire market.

For instance if you back 0 - 0 for 10 Euro at 12.5 and 1 - 0 for 10 Euro at 7.8 odds, and later if home team scores and is 1 – 0, it is clear that you lost your bet on 0 – 0, so 10 Euro loss influences outcome on other selections. Bfexplorer shows for 0 – 0 selection profit balance -9.88, well of course unrealistic outcomes but it is still valid if you would manage to close bet position on 0 – 0 by laying 0.13 Euro at 1000 odds.

So losing 10 Euro on 0 – 0 means that you would be able to close your bet position on entire market only when sum of winners on other selections is greater than 10 Euro.

In the above example it means that I would be in profit only when match score is still 1 - 0 and lay for 1 – 0 is lower than 3.9.

Can others trading on football correct score market confirm that fact?

The difference in profit balance is because bfexplorer calculates profit balance on all open bet positions and for bet positions there is no offer on one side, it takes the opposite price to offer hedge bet.

On bet positions with offer it takes current offered price to close bet position.
The question is now what is better solution?

Is the other app calculating the profit hedge position only on selections you can close? If yes and goal will be scored on selection you have no position open, then you definitely lose, and then what the other app will show as profit balance on the market?

In correct score market you can simply hide selections without any lay offer, so showing only selections with possible outcome, to close bet position use close bet position on selection button as it is nonsense to try to close bet position on selections which are already not possible outcome of the match.

Ilya, betfair api subscription is generated automatically, but in your case I did not realize that after switching your subscription to Free Professional in the next activation period there will be checked if you posted at least 5 articles or forum post on bfexplorer web site, therefore you were asked to subscribe as not fulfilling these conditions.

It is just coincidence, because when paying for Basic subscription, you still had active betfair api access from your trial period, so new subscription was not created, lesson learnt.

I will add to the user menu the subscription status web page, so anyone would be able to check his/her subscription status.

Miro, I already mentioned words about using common sense when replying on your other forum post, and we can actually see it now on your video.

Execute Trigger Bot needs to set the full path name to the bot trigger script file with parameter TriggerFilePathName. When working on your triggers and on my own ones, I was tired to copy&paste the script file name to this parameters, so I added a button (…) on the right side of the input box, when you click on this button the Open file dialog appears and you can select the script file which the Bot Trigger must to open and execute. It is definitely quicker to enter this parameter, and the last used folder is remembered as well.

We can all see a new button in your video, but you, once learnt to copy&paste script file name you will do copy&paste, well because you are used to mechanically repeat what you saw or what you were learnt to do, and doing it without thinking.

I added this button 3 version back maybe, so you actually worked with this for 3-5 days without noticing it.

You know that I used to name bots so the bot name describers a bot activity, and actually explains what a bot is doing and how. For instance Place bet and close selection bet position, well I could simply name it Trading bot, right? Naming this bot Trading bot would be confusing mainly for those who just started to learn what it is trading on betfair.

I believe that naming it Place bet and close selection bet position, is better as it exactly says what the bot does, so place bet first, and then close bet position. Well English is foreign language for me, but I hope that everyone understands what bet position means.

I named your script file SaveBotDataBotTrigger.fs

So what does this bot trigger do? Well, of course save bot data(s), and as I did not mention anything about when/how the bot saves “bot data”, it is at least clear that as the bot saves bot data, this bot must be executed before any other bot is started, as the bot saves bot data for bots which were executed later, and it does so by registering that bot had finished its activity, that bot was stopped, and saving its name, selection on which the bot was executed, and the bet position the bot had created.

If the bot would save profit history on the market, then I would name such bot:

SaveProfitHistoryBotTrigger.fs

Well BotTrigger in the name is useless, as the bot actually does not trigger any action bot, but if you have got more files in a project folder then you basically creates your naming convention for files, and this way you can differ different files in its purpose.

In your video we can see that you executed two instance of this SaveBotDataBotTrigger bot, even if you expected that the bot save profit history data, then I do not understand why you executed/started two instances of this bot, you must clearly understand that profit history, is a market profit balance saved “history”. I think the list of profit balances saves last 60 changes of the profit balance on a market. So I would expect to start the bot only once, as the bot would save market profit history.

In your video we can see that you installed Visual Studio on your computer, but instead of showing us your bot script file, maybe changed to suits your needs, for instance to not save bot data if bot did not create any bet position, such change requires two additional lines in your bot trigger code, you showed us csv file opened in Visual Studio, well that is frecking unbelievable.

So you installed Visual Studio, but you did not open Bfexplorer BOT SDK projects, and you did not create a project for your bot scripts, then my question is why you actually installed VS, very huge application installation which took you maybe more than 3 hours to install, but you actually do not know how to use VS for bot development.

This is really quite strange, but you have got the bot source code, so you have got “documentation”, what the bot does and how, but you were not interested to learn what the bot does, by opening the bot source code in the Visual Studio.

I would really suggest you to not doing something what it beyond your possibilities, make all your effort to study market prices development on many betfair sports events, then do manual trading and then find possibilities for bot automation, but not by bot triggers development for what you need at least basic understanding of for you are doing.

I have just updated bfexplorer adding StakeType parameter for Scratch Trading bot.

What you want is not desirable feature as the feedback from price movement is actually required feature for a trading ladder.

Miro was asking for different kind of ladder, showing just prices from his defined price range, that is not possible to implement right now, but made some experiment with bfexplorer spreadsheet. You can read and watch a video in this article: My New trading grid

http://bfexplorer.net/Community/ForumContent/60#My New trading grid

The ladder is automatically centered if last traded price is out of visible odds/price range on the ladder. You can test it just by scrolling ladder up or down.

It is not centered constantly, but you can do so by pressing shortcut (spacebar) or just by clicking on center toolbar button, this way you can see price trend development, as initially any market selection is centered in the ladder.

Yes Miro I can prepare something, but I think you actually do not know how you will analyze data. From what you said, you want to save market profit value, well ok but how you want to analyze such data?

I think you should first read some papers about analyzing data. You will not get any relevant information from just one value.

For instance have a look at on my article: Betfair Tennis Trading and Data Visualization

You can save any market data you see in bfexplorer, all those data are available for bot developer, so it is up to you what you save and how.

In the latest version of bfexplorer I added new method to IBotTrigger interface, EndExecution. So if you implement your bot trigger to listen for bot notifications, you should clean up when bot trigger stops its execution, in the EndExecution method.

After updating to Windows 10, the mouse capturing seems to not working when making my video screencasts. I will try to fix it in new videos.

I have fixed StakeType issue when using Use Ladder feature, update bfexplorer and your bot triggers as well.

You can test it in the latest version of bfexplorer.