User Comments

P.S. I think we are talking about different things. I’m talking about the trading and you are talking about software developing : - )

Stefan, "institutional" traders don't buy any software from vendors they have enough resources to develop their own software which would suite their need much better.

The only who buys software from vendors are "retail/individual" traders.

Stefan, if you look at the trading statistic of any trading broker you'll see that 95% of all "retail/individual" traders are losing their money and the rest 5% traders will lose their money soon. : - ) Just give them some time. : -)

The only who makes money in the trading it’s "institutional" traders because they have enough money to manipulate market and they posses "insider" information.

Believe me, you have 100 times more chances to make money with your coding skills or from selling your BFexploer platforms to other traders who are searching for luck.  : - )

With all efforts that you ready to put in your platform BFexplorer already could be more popular than any other trading software but you just don't know what to do. : - )

I see that the amount of Betfair traders isn't huge and there are other trading platforms but anyway you easily could do much better than you do now and with much less efforts. : - )

I see how much efforts you are ready to put into developing of BFexplorer and as I said if you knew what to do you could have already the best trading software. : - ) 

P.S. but it needs to be said I'm not a programmer so some things could looks easy to me but I can be wrong. : - )

Heh... about those videos on Youtube with the manual trading on the ladder… It's a usual scam to attract totally inexperienced trader to subscriber but thanks God almost all trading software has the trial period so people can try and see that they can't make profit that way. : - )

BFexplorer has the best ladder interface I've even met and there are no any other platforms that offer such customization it also offers "Betview" capabilities but why I don't see there are thousand subscribers around? : - )

P.S. the more people trade on Betfair the more money Betfair makes... Stefan, and you really think that the creators of Betfair are such shortsighted people? If the ladder was the crucial feature for the starting traders then we already saw this features on the official Betfair site long time ago. Believe me the creators of Betfair aren't such careless people to put their destiny in hands on the apps developers. : - )

Heh... Stefan, when I first time saw BFexplorer I got impression that the person who made it is awesome coder/programmer with willingness to put a lot of effort into his software but differently he isn’t trader. : -)

I was impressed how powerful are some less important features but then I saw that some essential functional at very poor state.    

Stefan, in your previous post you said your opinion about what any starting trader needs for trading and you mentioned the ladder but now think the people who created Betfair are definitely smart people and they have very experienced traders on their side and they know how to make money but why they don't provide the ladder interface on their official web site? They could do that easily with the resource they have and attract much more "starting" traders to trade on their exchange... but why there's no any "ladder" interface at all? Doesn't it look a bit strage to you? : - ) 

Stefan, without any doubts you do excellent support and no one can't find such excellent support at any other products.

I really appreciate your efforts and I really appreciate that you listen my complains. : - )

Keep up the good job!

Stefan, no offense taken! : - )

I just give you my feedbacks/suggestions form trader point of view that's all.  I understand that I might be wrong in every aspect.

It's your software and only decide what's good for it. : - )

Stefan, on your place I wouldn't mixed up the "essential" functional and automation/bot functional I would split them.

Because right now BFexplorer looks too complex for "average" trader and not too powerful for the "advanced" trader.  

Stefan, the trick is to know what features the overwhelming majority of traders use and what features are useless.

Heh... what would be if we removed "iBeer" or "X-ray" apps from iPhone? : - ) I think anyone can leave without them just fine : - ) but what if we removed the ability to call or send SMS? That would be tragic... : -)

If you aren't experienced trader and you look at all those features that some platforms offer you might think that all of them are important and essential but the truth is that the only 10% of those features are really used by traders and those 10% features should polished to perfection and when those 10% of features are polished to perfection you can move further and add other functional which is less important.

Stefan, I haven't even started to give you suggestion about automation : -) I started from the "essential" features which should present by default : - ) and probably 80% of all traders would be happy to hanve only those "essential" features and they will be frustrated if they don't them in good state.

For example, there are many smartphones on the market Apple, Samsung, Nokia and many others. They are all different and they all have different features but there's some essential functional which all smartphones offer you - make phone calls : - )

Now image what if there was a smartphone which requires you to spend few hours to figure out how to make calls and every time when you need to make a call it requires more than 10 minutes to setup your phone to make a call? Or what if it requires more than 10 minutes to setup your phone to send SMS...

Heh, I really doubt that such smartphone would be popular : - )  But if you look you see that you can make calls and send SMS by that phone the same as with other smartphones but the amount of efforts it requires to makes calls and send SMS makes this smartphone unattractive.

Yes, in BFexplorer you can have "the essential" functional but it takes too much time to setup simple things and also overall it very hard for "average" trader to figure out how to do that, especially, when "average" trader got used to do that in few clicks and without any efforts.

Heh... Stefan, I understand that probably I've annoyed you to death already with my advises/suggestions : -) but I see that you work really hard to improve your software and you do everything and even more to help the costumers so I try to share my experience in order to help you because as I said I have more than 10 years trading experience and I trade many different markets not only Betfair so I know how traders "think" and what they "need".

There are huge amount of traders who need only "essential" functional to trade and they don't want even bother with programing/bots/automation trading because many trading strategies can be done by that "essential" functional. Heh... and probably those traders are overwhelming majority overwhelming. : - )  I've already explained in my previous posts what do I mean when I say "essential" functional.

Those traders aren't coders or programmers and it very might be that their PC skill are even below average level so the easier to configure that “essential” stuff the better for them.

Also many traders comes to Betfair from the equity, forex or futures markets which have more than 25 year history of electronic trade and those traders already got used to some trading functional because it proved by time to be very efficient.

Betfair isn't much different for other market and you don’t need to "reinvent the wheel" here so the same functional as for other market.

Right now Geek Toy offer that "essential" functional and even some little automation with OCO(Order Cancel Order Feature) and probably it’s enough for overwhelming majority of traders and for the most of trades it doesn’t requires to figure out how it works because that functional has been taken from equity trading platform and every trader is familiar with it.

Geek Toy is a paid software but there's also Cymatic Trader which is free(not for too long I think : -)) and has almost the same "essential" functional but only without fully configurable "Stop Loss" order but Given(the author) of the Cymatic Traded said that he’ll add the fully customizable "Stop Loss" in few weeks so Cymatic Trader will be have "the essential" functional and some automation  capability through Excel integration but it needs to be said that for average trader it’s too complex.

Market Feeder lacks the “essential” functional but has extremely "user friendly" automation capability so you can make that "essential" functional and even much more.

Also traders don’t like to share their strategy and only very naive and unskilled traders think that they can find bots or already ready solution which make profit for them because if everybody win money then who lose them? : -)  so any trading platform shouldn’t give any ready solutions/strategy to traders but it should give them tools to create different strategy.

I'm sure the clear winner will be such trading software that can offer the same "essential" functional as Geek Toy and Cymatic Traders offer and the same automation capabilities that Marker Feeder offer.  

Stefan, I apologize that I called Bet Angel the best software : -) I tested it long time ago and it seemed to me very similar with Market Feeder so I thought my strategy could be easily done.

Yesterday I looked at Bet Angle again and saw that it didn't has anything similar with Market Feeder.  

Bet Angel looks like a scam : - ) it doesn't has any functional at all even the simplest functions as "Take Profit/Tick Off" don't work because they are coded wrong. Also you can say that it doesn't have any automation trade capability.

Even Cymatic Traded which is free about 100 times better than Bet Angel. : - )

Also I think my strategy can be easily done in Cymatic Trader at least in "semi-automation" mode because I've tested and I know that the limit orders with attached "Take Profit" work just fine in Cymatic Trader and the only what I need is cancel all unmatched lay orders through excel integration.

I’m easily able to do my strategy in Market Feeder but I can't show you the video because I don't have any screen capture program, also, I haven't had any need before to make any video so I don't have any experience in it... Heh I even don't have youtube account : - ) so if I have enough free time to spent on video making process then I'll do it.

So far Market Feeder looks a head above all other platforms.

Stefan, can you upload the bot that you showed on the video preview or it isn't ready yet?

Stefan, in Bet Angel I do my strategy this way:

There's an option to place any order you want on all selections at once so I place Lay order with "Take Profit" attached on all selections.

When I see that any order is matches I run the bot that cancel all unmatched Lay orders and keep the unmatched Back orders.

Heh... you can call it "semi-automation" but it's acceptable to me because it took me about few minutes to configure it. Maybe it's possible to make full automation but I haven't tried it.

Market Feeder has more powerful automation capability then Bet Angel so I think it will possible to do at least the same what I do in Bet Angel.

In Cymatic Trader something like that can be done only through Excel integration and I'm sure it will much more complex and time consuming so I haven't tried it yet.

In BFexplorer

In BFexplorer I can’t figure out how to do my strategy even in "semi-automation" mode. : - ) 

Btw... Stefan, Bet Angel and Market Feeder didn't invent any of the features that these platforms have. They just took them from equity trading platforms.

All that features were there 10 years ago when I stared to learn trading on the equity market.

Mir, I apologize but I didn't get what you said about in your previus post probably

because my English isn't good enough : - ) so please can you clarify a bit what did you mean : - )

Thanks!

For me they are best because they have some basic and essential stuff for the trading:

1) You can create an order and attach "Take Profit" and "Stop Loss" to it and takes just few clicks to do that and the only thing you need to do is just enter values for the initial order, "Take Profit" and "Stop Loss" orders that's all. The initial order is always chained with "Take Profit" and "Stop Loss" and you can modify and cancel all of them at one click.

2) Those platforms have the order management interface so you can manage all your orders at any time cancel them or modify them.

Also those platforms have very good automation/bot capability and you don't need to be a programmer to use them.

Here's an example of how the most efficient order management interface should look like.

There are should be 2 windows: 1) Unmatched Orders and 2) Matches Orders

The structure of the Unmatched Order Window should look like that – http://i.imgur.com/AqtWvrJ.png

And the structure of the Matched Order Window should look the same.

BetTrader is very primitive and the official Betfair site offer almost the same functionality just for free as BetTrader software offers and some additional functionality that BetTrader offers can only attract very unexperienced traders that only start to learn trading and if you are more or less experience trader then you understand that all that stuff is useless for the trading.

Heh... when I watch some videos where someone do manual trade at the ladder and tries to convince you that you can profit from it then it always makes me smile because as I said only very unexpired trader can think that it's really possible to profit from such trade.

It's just waste of time to invest your efforts to improve the manual trade at the ladder but many trading platforms represent it as the key features and it's just ridiculous.   

In my opinion Marker Feeder and Bet Angel are the best trading platforms for Betfair but it doesn't mean that those platforms are the end of your dreams and a lot of things in them can be improved and to say honestly those platforms are not to far away from BFexplorer and with some improvements BFexplorer can easly "catch" them. 

Stefan, if you remember I was looking for "BetView" functional but I need it not to use in my manual trading but I need to have "better" view on the market in hope to find any trading opportunities which later can be used in automation trading.